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masonry heater stoves in uk?
 Started by  red
 1 Aug 2009, 10:10 PM


hallo
masonry heater stoves have a firm hold in europe and the USA In the UK they are virtually non-existant, lots of ideas abound from the fact there is not many people who have the skills to build them,to what are they? Are there any people who have thought of having one built? The reason is that I have the skills and experience and am tentatively thinking of starting to build them in the UK, I guess I am testing the waters before I go down the route of expensive marketing etc any feedback would be most welcome
regards
fridihem
images.jpg (3Kb)  
I live in Sweden, and tiled stoves, or as we call them "kakelugnar" are very popular here. If you buy a house built before the 2nd WW you are sure to get a house with a stove in almost every large room. They are somewhat expensive now, but easy to use, and after only a few hours in use, the whole of the stove is warm to hot, and remains so for up to 24 hrs. NIBE in the UK can supply or at least give you info and most likely they have catalogues to download

 
fridihem
tiled stove.jpg (173Kb)  
New image.
 
heinbloed
As fridihem said already the idea behind a good stove is a good knowledge. No-one on the EU continent is allowed to build a DIY stove,no builder, no architect, no mason.
To build a mason stove one has to be a "master stove-builder", certifying the job when the work is finished. Signing for the stove's quality.This master has be enrolled in the local quality crafts men roll.
And after that certification a "master chimney sweeper" has to sign the functionality as well as the safety of the ensemble of stove and chimney. A master, not a DIY sweeper.A master who is -again- enrolled in the local trade masters roll.
 
The mason stove is usually build by craftsmen who are supervised by the master.
To become a "stove builder craftsman" one has to do a test with the local guild of trade, showing the trades man work. After three to four years of apprentice ship with a master.
Once one is a registered stove builder one can work for a stove builder master. After two years at the earliest a stove builder crafts man can apply for a mastertitle as well, allowing for independant work.
To get this master title which allows to employ crafts men as well as appentices one has to visit the "stove builders master school" for two years.
Building a master piece and doing a theoreticall examen after two years will entitle the new master to run his own bussiness
Now you see why people in colder countries aren't killed by frost at home, they can heat their homes. In GB some thousand of people are killed every year because some duds have installed heating systems which don't heat the house at affordable costs, as you propably know.
 
And the fire insurance for homes in GB is about twice as high as on the EU continent, for the reason that heat sources in GB are very deadly.Installed by amateurs, claiming to have some experience.
 
On the EU continent smokealarms are considered obsolete. Since themaster chimney sweeper will check the chimney at least once per year. Signing for his job. Making the fire/mortgage insurance becoming efective in case a fire breaks out.
No master who has buil the stove or no master who signed for the initial functionality or no master sweeper sihning every year and the insurance won't pay a penny.All three signiatures and seals have to be there. In case the householder's paper work is destroyed: all masters have to keep their books in order, so insurance cases can always be double-checked.
 
This aproach keeps the cowboys out, makes heating cheap and simple and 'enviroment friendly', keeps the mortgage rates low and the insurance premiums as well.
 
It where the British authorities who developed this trade, this quality demand b.t.w..
To keep Lloyd's payments low, payments covering professional failures in industrial areas.
 
red
thanks for replies the eu has some tight laws! i was in norway recently building a masonry stove and was surprised how each area had a' chimney sweep' officer someone who inspected the chimneys every year makes sense as most homes have a fire.the officer was really excited when he inspected the finished stove,he had heard of them but never seen one. norway does not have a history of masonry stoves, they are mainly cast iron,things are slowly changing though.safety is foremost in building stoves, but the eu has strict laws to build stoves? if the uk enters the eu then masonry stoves will not be built unless someone qualified from the eu comes to live here? it will be interesting to see if masonry stoves take off in the uk, will the stove builders be out of work if we join the eu? we don't have a history of these stoves in the uk so things could be interesting.good old politics and red tape?!
regards
 
fridihem
Red,
If the UK joins the EU, thought you were already in as a fully paid up member, noy using their monopoly money but still. Same thing applies here in Sweden, a chimney sweep comes once a year to clean and inspect, and any new ones are always tested under pressure for any leakages.
 
Raz
Red - I'm very interested in them, since they seem to be the best in terms of efficiency. But any ideas on making them modular 'DIY install kits', or do you need an expert and a lot of muscle power to install them?
 
Thanks
 
red
hi raz
as far as i know they are the most efficient form of heating some claim up to 90% efficiency, there aren't kits as far as i know, in the usa you can buy the inner core of the stove as a kit but the aren't cheap also consider the shipping costs check out temp-cast usa the stoves can be complicated until you understand how they work, special fireclays are used also firebricks, expansion is very important and allowances have to made in there construction otherwise you would have so many problems I'd love to say they are a diy job, but they are not.there are lots of different designs and styles. there was an article in a recent issue of permaculture, it was made with paving slabs, the idea works but i feel with continued use the slabs could crumble under the intense heat, if the slabs were replaced with refractory concrete then you would have a longer lasting stove, if you need any more info please ask
regards red
 
sweep
Dear Red
although I don't have any experience of these stoves personally, I thought you might be interested in contacting a local company to me, the ceramic stove company, they are based in Oxford and have been trading many years. Hope this is of use.
 
webcord
Hi, I just found this thread and have been pondering on contributing or not. The people who live in other countries have their way of doing things, that is fine but like so many people around I have been interested in these stoves for some time. I have researched design, function, costs, fuels etc etc . After 18 months of reading and questions I have come to the conclusion that it is almost criminal that no-one in the uk, or eu is prepared to take the "risk" of allowing the free development of these stoves and indeed many other "new" technologies. This could well be as a result of the 'blame' and 'compensation' culture we seem to created for ourselves. Not for us the " yes we can " of Mr Obama, not in Britain!
Whatever the reason, I have looked at the building requirements in uk and I see no reason why the councils should not endorse these fires. However FOR ANY SOLID FUEL FIRE built or installed in the uk you MUST have a certified installer who will give you a certificate and for ANY chimney you must have a registered sweep and again cert!
Failure to comply leaves you open to no insurance in event of fire and possible problems later with building regs.
You can of course choose to ignore these points, take a calculated risk if you are confident you understand enough, have the skill etc.. and build yourself one in your own home. That I feel is up to the individual and would happily defend myself if it were me .
If however you are wanting to sell these and build yourself I think you are entering a totally different game, you are potentially putting a customers life at risk, that is not somewhere I would choose to go.
The safe and correct solution is for you to get yourself qualified as an approved installer, no 35 apprentiship or whatever needed, just do the training and get registered. Then you can install them.
If you are building your own stoves to sell you will also need to get them tested for safety etc as well as showing that you run a "propper" business, This is where it falls down in uk, the testing is prohibitively expensive in this case, so you are stuffed again.
Safety regs are there for a good reason and should not be ignored these days because if you get it wrong you could go to prison, or worse kill someone.
 
webcord
Hi again, on re reading the comments, the stoves to build in uk are not the same as the stoves in Scandanavia and do not need a master mason to build one. As for supplying kits, not on really, larger stoves need designed specifically for the room/house they are going into then there is the cost of transport in uk, I was quoted upwards of £40 / tonne, meaning a delivery charge, at cost, of around £140 for a large heater. On top of this is the 25 bags of sand, ballast, cement etc .
It seems to me that part of the beauty of the job is the scope you have in the design and particularly the finnishing materials.
I have spent a long time on this and conclude that if you are confident, and are willing to accept advice then build one for yourself, you won't regret it.
 
fridihem
True what you say about the stoves in Sweden.
There is a very long tradition here in Sweden, whereby most older houses have several in the building, some have one in each room. This was the custom before the age of central heating, and due to the severe winters it was important to keep warm, and naturally the access to free wood did help.
A house in my town was recently sold for about £30000, and in fairly good nick. There are 6 masonry stoves in that house, and they were worth more than the house itself, as they were antique and in very good condition. Many actually buy old properties, dismantle the stoves and sell them on again. These stoves are the type that have flues that go up and down and around, it you know what I mean, and are extremely economical, keeping warm well into the next day.
 
red
thanks for info
 
hetas is the body in the uk who would inspect masonry stoves? they would have to confirm to building regs ie distance from combustibles, hearth size and connection to existing or new chimney. there are masonry stoves built in the uk though i imagine a hetas inspector may scratch their head! i recently built one in Norway with a stove builder, the inspector had never seen one before and yes, he did scratch his head!I am building one in the uk in the new year, it should be both rewarding and interesting re regs. anyone have any relevant info please let me know
 
regards red
 

   
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